Candice
Nothing but the Words episode number 47, "Your Next Chapter."
Voiceover
Welcome to nothing but the Words, the podcast that gives you everything you need to know to write a phenomenal book. Now here's your host, your author coach, Candice L. Davis.
Candice
Hey there and welcome to Nothing but the Words. I'm your author coach Candice L. Davisand today we have a very special episode. I'm actually interviewing a client and friend about a book that we worked on together this year. She is an amazing author and an amazing thinker, which is one of the things I love about working with her. Let me read you her bio, so you know exactly who I'm talking about. Angela Raspass is a Sydney-based business mentor, speaker, author, podcaster, and self worth advocate with a particular passion for supporting women to step into their next chapter and do the work in the world they're here for. From New Zealand to Australia, from a corporate career to motherhood, from freelance marketing to building an agency, from soul-destroying addiction to personal transformation. And from business consulting to mentoring. Angela has a richly textured story with empathy, optimism and wisdom at its core, Angela, welcome to the podcast!
Angela
Oh, that's a big claim that last one, isn't it? And I'm gonna go with it! *laughs*
Candice
You got this girl. Look, you can claim it, because it's true. Welcome, I'm so glad you're here.
Angela
I'm delighted. I miss talking to you with that process. We went through all the time when we were writing, but it's just lovely to be back in touch again.
Candice
I love it. It's one of my favorite things to do. So I'm going to for those of you who are watching video, instead of listening to audio, you'll be able to get a quick look at the cover of Angela's book "Your Next Chapter." And Angela, I want you to tell us about this book. What's it about? Who's it for? Why did you write it?
Angela
Like it was a combination of, I guess, life experience, Candice, which I guess a lot of authors say. But when I was back at the- on the cusp of what I call the next chapter, which was not happy with what's going on, but not confident about what I was going to step into, I didn't have any sort of guides. It was like work it out as you go, which I guess is what we all do. But there was so much fear that was there about this. In particular there's, and I talked about in the book a couple of really pivotal moments, but the one that is most logical from a business perspective is that I had that agency that I'd built from home. You know, dining room table, and then a bit got bigger, and I went to service offices, then it got staff and it got bigger. I was following that trajectory that we're all supposed to follow. But I'd never paused and taken a breath. And I found myself slammed trying to juggle kids and be a wife, and a mother, and an employer, and a businesswoman. And I was exhausted. And I was really cranky at myself, because I thought it was because I couldn't hack the pace, as we say here in Australia.
Candice
Mmhmm.
Angela
And I had this like come to Jesus moment of like drinking so much Red Bull and smoking cigarettes, and just getting resentful and thinking that I shouldn't be because I had, you know, success, but felt like crap on the inside.
Candice
Wow.
Angela
When I look back, it took me a while to actually acknowledge and accept what was happening. The discontent to build the desire, which was what do I want instead? And then to step into it. And I realized that the thing that was holding me back was self-doubt in a big way of could I actually at 42— back then, that was a while ago—at 42 could I chuck it all away, and actually pivot or as we've been saying it pirouette because we're sick of pivot, into next chapter, because it was a bit scary, why'd it all go wrong? You know, just suck it up, girl, and get on with it. But I eventually let go. And then when I was doing my mentoring over the last, you know, 10 years, I've seen so many other women going through exactly the same arc. And so I actually saw this this cycle that was happening. And I managed to capture it and get it down in a visual model. And then I went you know what? I'm gonna find out what's underneath each of these. And you know, I'm gonna write a book! Because writing a book, I gotta say, I am such a hog for books. I love them. I read constantly. And there's always been this wee desire inside to contribute and have my wee book sitting on a bookshelf somewhere. But I was pretty scared about doing that too. But I knew that it was important. And I knew it's important for us when we have that real- that calling that doesn't go away. It's always sitting there we need to turn and acknowledge it and allow it to step forward and be fully seen. And so I gathered my courage, spoke to you, and we got started.
Angela
So you said so many good things in there, but one thing I don't want to skip over is that you had created a successful business. You had done what most of us set out and are told, we should be trying to do.
Angela
Yep.
Candice
So you had reached the point that most of us were striving to reach. But you were not happy or satisfied with what you had.
Angela
No. I think that the reason for that is that—there's an expression I use in the book a lot, "just because you can, it doesn't mean you should." And a lot of us when we leave corporate world, and speaking with my experience, but also looking at a lot of other clients that I've worked with, we look at the world and go, "okay, what will we do?" Oh, look, I was a marketer. Therefore, I will become a freelance marketing consultant, it's logical, we use our skills. And that's a perfect place to start. But if we don't dial up our self awareness and listen internally to what's going on for us, we can end up just going down a path that just happens without actually any conscious choice. And that's the part that I want other women to avoid. Otherwise, you might find yourself at the same, like, bang up against that wall. So we need to bring in our values as well. So what is important to us because those values need to be in action in our business. And there's another wee model that popped up as I went along, which has contribution, fulfilment, financial rewards, you need all three-
Candice
Yeah.
Angela
-to have like a whole-hearted, sustainable business. And I personally, look, I think, obviously, money is important it's not that I don't like money. Money is important. But if it's the only thing that we focus on, instead of that feeling of contribution and the fulfillment that comes from it, then it's, it's not going to last. And I don't want a business to be a flash in the pan, like, the words changed. I expect, I'm 51, almost 52, and I expect to be working for myself for quite a while. And that's a desire as well as an expectation. And you can't do that when you are just doing what you can, as opposed to what calls you, what fulfills you, where the need in the world is that you're responding to. So all of those pieces are just so vital.
Candice
You keep giving me so much to work with here. So it's so interesting. I will turn 50 tomorrow. I'm super excited.
Angela
That's fabulous.
Candice
I'm really I mean, people keep saying, "you're on quarantine, what are you going to do?" It's going to be good, don't worry about it. But so many of my friends are talking about retirement. So they have been in the same job with a corporation or with a government agency since we graduated college together or shortly thereafter. And they're talking about retirement. And when they asked me, "Candice, are you thinking about retiring soon?" I'm like, wait, what? Then what would I do? Like, I love what I do, why would I retire? And so it sounds like you have no desire to retire anytime soon, like you are doing what you love.
Angela
Absolutely. And that's the key like, but there's more. There's other pieces that sit underneath it that doing what you love energizes you and enthuses you that enthusiasm is contagious, and it lifts other people as well. Because life is not about just being inspired. It's how you inspire others to see themselves as well. That's something I truly believe. And if you are in your zone, like the thing that you are here for—and I don't mean, you know, purpose with a capital P—I want you to be in the landscape of all the pieces that excite you. There's many different aspects of my business and what I do now that really light me up. There's parts of that, that still ain't that great. So I outsource those. But it's when you're in the sweet spot where those three pieces are coming together. Why would I want to stop doing this? But I will get to choose, I might not want to work 60, 50, 40, 30, 20 hours, I might just work 10 hours a week, whatever. But it's about creating the recipe that works for you. And yeah, I can't- I don't see in the close future stopping what I'm doing. Absolutely not. But I wanted to say the reason I can continue with with more ease is because it fits me. You know, I've got my clothing on, I'm not trying to squeeze into somebody else's costume. And so it's easy to walk through the world when the garments you've got on fit you properly.
Candice
So I loved it when you said you're not talking about purpose with a capital P. Can you expand on that a little bit because I find so many people that I talk to even new authors, maybe they're writing a book to try to pivot their lives or pirouette to another direction. I love that I will be using that. But they are very much under a pressure to fulfill, to discover, and find their one purpose. As if there's just one thing. What are your thoughts on that?
Angela
I think that's just too restrictive. I think that puts too much pressure on us. And I think what it does is that it makes us a bit myopic. And we don't like put our head up and look around at other possibilities. I've got—my personal belief—is that we are wired in certain ways like I'm an expressive. Like I will talk, like, I'm very good at listening as well. But I'm a talker, I'm like, I can't keep my hands down, like, I've got to throw them around. If I look back through the stories of my life, like when you've got your self-awareness dialed up, I can see that I have always been like that. So my purpose, overall, is to inspire people. To help them see that they can, whatever it is, but my purpose plays out in lots of different ways. So I like the feeling—and I can't remember where I first read it—but the feeling of being purposeful, rather than on purpose.
Angela
Because on purpose suggests that you can fall off purpose and get it wrong. We're being purposeful. If my intention is always to help people borrow their belief—my belief in them until they have it for themselves—then I was doing that as a kid, I do that with my mentoring clients, I do that when I'm at a recovery meeting and speaking, you know, I do that through the book. So I'm expressing myself in a purposeful way. And that, to me, feels roomier. And I think if we all look back, we can find those threads and see how whatever the thing is that you're drawn to, you've been expressing it in different ways throughout. So don't get all like, what is the one thing because then you're just like, stay in your room and sort of suck your thumb. Like, "I can't find it yet!" And we don't need that. We gotta be out there discovering it. Like, it becomes- when you start taking the steps, yyou just follow what feels good. And you keep going rather than wait and get the map all right before you venture out the door. That's my feeling.
Candice
So one of the things, when we were working together, you use the term middle-aged, we are middle-aged women. Like you embrace that term, which I love. Because I celebrate my age. I feel like it's a gift to get to another year to give, to get to another day, I'm celebrating every year. So how did that play into the person you were writing for? Is this book written for a middle-aged woman? Or is it really for anyone who wants to step into doing something new in their lives?
Angela
I gotta be honest, that's a concept that I struggled with, because I felt in some ways, you know, I'm the voice of midlife, you know. Because that's where I am. I'm not expecting to live past a hundred. I'm definitely at midlife. And so I could speak to my experience, which is most easily heard and related to by someone who is of my generation. You know, I'm Generation X, we grew up with very, yep the hands up there, we grew up with quite a narrow generation in terms of timing, and we grew up with an interesting interplay of things that were going on around us. We were being told that, you know, girls can do anything that was the campaign that I grew up with. But like, I remember seeing a meme once that talked about knowing that I can have it all, I didn't realize I had to do it all. And then that was that type of sandwich that we got stuck in of more, more, more. You know, power dressing and shoulder pads and the whole kit and caboodle. And just striving on and doing and not stopping and questioning and checking in and something we find ourselves often in our 40s, if we've had children, as they start to get a little bit older and a bit more time, at least in our headspace opens up, we start to think, how the hell did I get here?
Angela
And is this really what I want? And I spoke from a business woman's perspective, because so many of us are, it was like 38%, I think was the figure in the book I don't have it in front of me, that have their own businesses. So that was the woman I was speaking to. But then as I talked to other women about it, and yourself, the recognition was that hitting a next chapter doesn't have an age definition. It's more of a feeling inside. And I, you know, an age is just a number. I mean, we all know that. But it's more about getting to that stage and feeling the discontent and the sort of dismay, I thought I'd be happy with this. And I'm not. Is that okay? Can I actually can I actually move into the next stage, the next chapter. So although it was written with a slant of midlife, because that's who I am, I can see its relevance to anyone, any woman who is—and men as well—but mainly women, any woman who is thinking, I'm not happy. What's next? So it's that oscillation right? Because you know, the next chapter change cycle says discontent, desire, decision, design, deliver that's the cycle but in the middle is decision and doubt. So in the middle is doubt and it's that doubt that we all experience in different ways. And it comes back to, I believe, the self doubt underneath that is the disconnection from self worth. We don't- we question if we are able, we question if we are worthy, even if we don't use those words, long answer. See I'm good at long answers! *laughs*
Candice
Long answer, but so on point! So for the person who's listening to this and saying, "well, listen, I'm barely 40 and I have a successful job. I'm just not happy doing this." Maybe they- I talked to so many lawyers who went to law school studied for the BAR, passed the BAR, and really want to do something else now. They just are over it. But they're not sure what the next thing should be. Will your book will "Your Next Chapter" help them figure out what that next thing should be?
Angela
Yes . . . but I put dot dot dot after that because there isn't a, "okay, here's a grab bag and find your thing in here." It's more about the internal questioning that it will prompt and giving people permission to look back because life is lived forward but it's understood backwards. Which is a quote, I got from from, I think it was a Swedish gentleman that's in the book, and I loved that when I came across it. And it's like when we connect those threads together. And we find out, like if you're a lawyer, if you study that, if you can go back and find the pieces that are enjoyable, because not all of it is but there's pieces that will be things that that would that drew you to it in the first place. And then it's looking at how can I utilize those in a different way.
Angela
One of the things that's associated with the book, once you've got a copy, is you have access to some bonus tools, one of which is a program, a free short program, called Your Journey Board, which takes people- the very first step in that module, in that program, is to look back at what I call that the peaks, and the rocks. Like the highlights and the lowlights throughout the decades that you've been through so far. And using those to help you understand. This is what led me up. So to help you sort of begin to map the next steps through. So the book gets you started. And then that helps you actually go through that particular process. So will it help you? Absolutely. Because it will give you some tools to work with. Will it tell you this is the thing? No. That's an internal landscape that that we want to travel through, and find where those highlights and lowlights are so that you can start to work out your next path.
Candice
Yeah, I think one of the gifts, for me at least, of middle age is that I no longer want anyone to tell me. When I was younger, I just wanted someone to tell me what to do. At this point, I realized that just doesn't work.
Angela
We have to google inside to Google inside!
Candice
*both laugh* We have google inside, yes! Google yourself.
Angela
Before you default, and I think that's, that's a beautiful gift of getting a little older as well is that we start to move away from the need for approval. Like, this is the thing. I don't care if you don't think this is a thing. This is the thing for me and that's okay. And that's actually that's like an exhale.
Candice
Yeah.
Angela
We can exhale. It feels good.
Candice
Absolutely. So just in the short time that we've been talking, self worth has come up. And I will just share this with everyone I once use the term self esteem when Angela and I were talking and she reached all the way from Australia and smacked my hand. *both laugh* It was a love tap, but it was hard. So tell me what does self worth have to do with a woman or even a man, because frankly anyone could apply this book, but you know, mostly women listen to this podcast. So what would self esteem have to do with her ability to step into her next chapter?
Angela
Oh, you said self esteem again.
Candice
I did say it I just got slapped again! *both laugh* Self worth for goodness sake!
Angela
But this is Candice, this is a great example of how a lot of people know about self esteem, but not a lot of people know about self worth. Are they the same? Well, no, they're not. The difference between them, if you really would just want to keep it very, very simple, self esteem comes from external validation, really, and it can come up and down and up and down. Self worth is is an inside job. Self worth is that- we're born with it. Just the very fact that we're here makes us worthy. But competition, comparison, and conditioning tells us otherwise. So what I'm about is reconnecting people to their sense of self worth. Because, like, you think about a little baby that's arriving in the world, and you hold this baby up and you don't say what have you done for me lately? You know, how have you proven yourself they just are worthy. So we start whole and then it gets eroded when we start to say well, "you should be like this," and you know, it's so many things, my god I could talk about this for hours, and will one day.
Angela
But if we do not have this innate friendship with ourselves, if we are not a safe place to land for ourselves, if we do not have our own back then it makes it very difficult to go out there into a wild world. So this connection to, like, taking care of yourself speaking to yourself kindly, compassionately, encouragingly. You know, you're more likely to try new things when you know that you're going to support yourself. Self esteem means "what do you think? How did I do?" You know? "Can you give me some gold stars?"
Candice
Yeah.
Angela
And then what happens when when that leaves the room? When you're no longer with that person, talking to that coach, you know, standing on that on that podium getting the accolades. It's like when you're by yourself at 3am, self worth is what hugs you and tells you that what you're after is possible, and encourages you to keep moving. So that is very simply the difference. It's affirming yourself. And it's finding the evidence that you have worth without a doubt. And that really, it helps you to stand a little taller, and give it a go again. You know, there's people you think about, I remember reading both Brene Brown, who obviously sort of talks about worthiness enormously. She had to self publish her first book, because she couldn't find a publisher. Can you believe that? And J.K. Rowling, no one wanted Harry Potter. Now, if their self esteem was in tatters as a result of that external rejection, we wouldn't have those bodies of work in the world today. That's why self worth is so incredibly important. We back ourselves, we keep moving. So yeah, I'm a bit of a crusade that is my own next chapter.
Candice
I love that crusade, actually. I mean, my husband and I, we both will often say to each other, this person has created so much success in whatever field we're working on at the time. They're no smarter than we are, we would say, but I do think there is an element of their belief in their ability to do it that gets them there faster, or gets them there at all.
Angela
And it's not an ego thing. People get concerned that, "Oh, am I being egotistical?" No, you're not. This is grounded. It's grounded energy that wraps around you so that you can do the work in the world you're here for. So you can be purposeful, so that you can listen to that calling, that inner sage is what I call it, the inner critic, *blabbing inner critic sounds*. She's loud. If you meet her in the book, my inner critic is Horrible Helga in high heels. I apologize if your name is Helga had to go with the name. But underneath that, you know that rowdiness is the inner sage. And she tells me that this is my purpose for work in the world. And she reassures me, I connect with her. And I like to have to filter out all of that conditioning, it's a process, there's not a self worth switch, like, "oh, look, I flick the switch. I'm all good now." There's so many aspects that, you know, I've really worked on this since I moved into the recovery movements over 14 years ago now, You know, a big reason why I was in active addiction was that I'd lost that connection to worthiness. I didn't think I was worth anything. And that's painful. And so we tend to anesthetize this pain in all different sorts of ways. Okay, but if we can reconnect, and there's no need for the anesthetic, so many things become possible. So many things.
Candice
I love that your book talks about that, because I can find a million books on how to find your purpose, or how to figure out what business you want to do next. But I do think they're largely missing that element, because you can have all the information but if you don't believe that you are capable or worthy it's just not going to happen.
Candice
Yeah, it's just noise. It's just noise. It's like it just slips off you. I've seen it just so so so much.
Candice
Yeah. One of the things you mentioned, you mentioned a couple of models that you have used. And frameworks and models, Listeners, come incredibly easily to Angela. She just kind of dreams them up and then they work really well. So you have at least two, were there more than two that you had in your book?
Angela
I'm sure there's a few others. Oh, there's a couple of variations of the model. Yeah. And there's also there's also concepts like catch and detach. And there's the discontents continuum, there's loads of goodies in there. I do like models.
Candice
Did they make the writing process easier for you?
Angela
Yes, definitely. Definitely. Like the main- the first model the Change Cycle model. Once I had that, and I had the stages in it, then that gave the book its structure.
Candice
Okay.
Angela
And then other models, which I've used throughout my mentoring and other ones that appeared as I was writing. They sort of tapped on my shoulder and said, "Hello, include me, please." So I put them there.
Candice
They're so great because as a reader, I mean, many of us—whether you consider yourself a visual learner or not—having the visual reinforces the lesson that we're trying to get.
Angela
Yeah,
Candice
You know? And it makes the organization so much easier. What was surprising to you about the process of writing your book?
Angela
*sighs* What was surprising? . . .
Candice
What happened that was unexpected or what maybe you thought would be different than it was in the process?
Angela
I think it was, um, that once I got into it, once I allowed myself—this is a key one—because you and I talked about how the expectations I was placing on myself were frickin' heavy. Because as a reader, as a lover of books, as you explained to me—and this actually set me free—because I'd set the bar for myself like I'm reading Brene Brown and Maggie Warrell and all these people and going, "I could never!" So having to go through my own cycle and recognize that it's okay. You're beginning. You're writing the best possible book you can with assistance at this stage of your development. Once I could fully like actually embody that, then that set me free. That really set me free. Because it was like it was staying on my own path. Because remember, I said that comparison point is one of the most dangerous things that just stops us in our tracks. It's what had stopped me for years. And so often people would say to me, "Oh, my God, you should write a book." And I go, "Yeah, I should." That's too scary to start. So it surprised me that once you had shone the light on that, and helped me see it, because I was like this, I was just too close to it. We all need someone outside of ourselves to help us see what's right in front of our noses. Then the freedom that gave me that, like, I'm contributing, I'm not like the be all and end all I'm contributing and that's okay.
Angela
So that was that was not so much surprising as elevating. That was a relief. What surprised me was how much editing is involved. That surprised me. It was like- and the approach when we were talking of like, just get that, write that chapter, then move to the next. Don't go back and pull it to pieces, because if you do, you'll never get to the next chapter. And I was like, "but but but we've had this conversation. I know how to-" "Just stop, get on with it," "Okay, okay." I listened to you, I completely listened to you, because I knew I was in good hands. So it surprised me that I couldn't perfect that one before I went to the next one. But now I totally get why. That was surprising.
Angela
Oh, my goodness, it was it was such a journey of discovery. I'm surprised how much more sure I feel about my work now. It's almost like because the book or the process of writing the book demanded that I think clearly and thoroughly. And so because you know, to express it in on paper, made you think, yeah, dig more deeply. And so I think that has helped anchor me into the processes that I use and to really feel it more so that yeah, I have something that's very useful. Yeah. And that's what I want. I want to be useful for people. I want the work that I create to be useful, to make a difference for them. And now I feel more grounded into the value of what it is that I do have to offer in that respect. So that happens as a result of writing it through. Discussing it, deepening it, and expanding it. So that was delicious. But yeah, the editing, oh my lord, I thought once I've written the damn thing, it was like, "Well, there you go!" But no, you told me you gonna edit, and you're gonna edit, and you're gonna edit and I edited. And that surprised me.
Candice
That is the process. And, you know, that desire to perfect a chapter and move on, before you move on to the next one to really keep going back. And that's so natural, right? We want perfection. And I have friends and colleagues who write that way. But it generally takes them five years or more to produce a book and you don't want to spend five years.
Angela
Well, that's actually really funny, is it, because I thought about this for so long. And we actually had first spoken I found one of my—because I had lots of journals—and it had "2018 My book" Well, what are we now 2020. So it took a while again. But once I actually decided, once I use my own model, got out of deliberation, and into doing—which are the two different phases in the model that I have—I'm surprised at how quickly it actually came together. Because I think it was really when you look at it was about six months.
Candice
Yeah. Which was fantastic. Because, I mean, your book is not . . . It's not, you know, some of my clients write books that are really short, like half the length of this. And in the same amount of time that it took you to write this one. The difference being I think you have used this stuff so much you weren't creating it from scratch. You weren't creating it out of whole cloth. You really were capturing knowledge that you already have.
Angela
I think that probably—well being my first book I don't know, but I'm assuming—that was what made it a little bit easier.
Candice
Yeah,
Angela
But there's absolutely no doubt that working with you made made the whole process not just easier, but so much more enjoyable. So much more enjoyable. It was it was. And did you hear how I said, "That's my first book"? *both laugh*
Candice
I know. I'm already excited for the next one! I really am. So you know, pandemic hit Australia, just like it hit, not just like, but as it hit everywhere else. And you have a business and you have a family. So how did you manage to manage your time to get the writing done? Because you write a lot, you wrote a significant amount of consonant.
Angela
Well, what I found was, I had to find the rhythm that works for me. So I had a tool and I had a rhythm. So I'm, look, I'm a Kiwi farm girl, Kiwi being New Zealand. I'm a Kiwi farm girl by origin. I'm used to early mornings.
Candice
Yeah
Angela
I like the mornings where I live, we get the morning sunrise it's beautiful. And so I found the thing that worked best for me was to get up at 6am—when everyone else is so asleep—and I would do a short meditation and then I would get into it. Now at first, the tool that I was using was, I was taught by one of my mentors, which is simple genius, mind writing. So genius mind writing, I use normally journaling, like genius mind, what would you have me know today? Not that and off we go. But she suggested, "Well, why don't you ask it, if it will help you write your book?" Because you're basically talking to yourself. So I went, "huh, give it a go." Genius mind? Could you help me with chapter one. And off we went.
Angela
And then I'd literally just write, I would just- wouldn't think I would just write freehand for about, usually about 30 minutes. And then I would look at it. And I would take it and I'd use the transcription tool otter.ai and I would read it with this big fat microphone here. And then I would download that. And that would be the basis of the chapter. And then I would go in and start working on the chapter. So I had my thoughts down freehand because I love writing, there's something about the connection between your head, heart, and paper and pen that seems significant. But I'm also a podcaster. So I was happy to speak it. And then I took it onto the page. So I would do that I would get it out of my head, the concept of creating before you consume anything, anybody else's content, and then I'd get it down. And then I would go back and work on it later in the afternoon, when I'd got all the family and the workhouse out of the way, I gave myself that space. And that's pretty much the routine. So that happened, then I'd send it to you. And then we'd go back and forward a little bit. And then when I had all the chapters, I, we've been really fortunate here we haven't had the same impact with the pandemic, so I could still do some traveling around not a huge amount had to say within my state. But I hired an Airbnb house for four days. And I said, this is the prime editing time. So I took all the stuff with me, locked myself away, literally for 4 days, though I did speak with people online. But I just got up in the morning and said today I'm doing chapters 1, 2, and 3. Tomorrow, I'm doing chapter 4. And I just did it. And I thought that was it, but then there was more!
Angela
*both laugh* But that was progress. You made great progress during that time, right?
Angela
That made a big difference. And the really interesting thing? When I read chapter 1, I was like, "oh my God, this is crap." Then I got to chapter 2, "Well, it's not that bad." I got to chapter 3. Oh, it's improving chapter 4, "You know what? I might have a book here." And it was really interesting that seeing the improvements over time, which you told me would happen. But you know, when you're in the midst of it, you don't necessarily believe that. And then it happens?
Candice
Yeah, it's a skill! And you're practicing it. With each chapter, you're practicing it more, right? You can't help but get better at it as you practice it. It's not a magic wand that- your favorite authors are not waving a magic wand they have written and written and written that's how they develop that skill.
Angela
Yeah, and that's what I I really do understand now. And it was just really interesting to see it in black and white in front of me. And so I lifted the former chapters to sort of match the latter chapters. And then I had a book! And it was like, "Oh my gosh!"
Candice
This book is really like, I'm just really in love with it. And part of what I'm in love with, obviously, I knew the content, because I read it as you were writing it, for the most part. But it's one of the most beautifully designed books that I've seen in a long time. And I'm including any books. I mean, it's just really, really pretty. Everything is done correctly, which doesn't always happen with self-publishing/independent publishing. Maybe it's not necessarily designers fault sometimes, you know, the author wants something that the designer knows they shouldn't do, but the author insists it. So you know, it may come out not great, but this book is really beautiful. How did you find the design process? Obviously you did- you hired people, and how was that experience for you?
Angela
Well, there was two different tracks. I could have gone down. I could have gone- because I knew that there was no designers because I've been in that world for my clients for a long time. And I could have done everything myself. But what happened was I became aware of this wonderful woman up in Queensland, who was like a production midwife, I'm going to call her, where she has her stable of of editors and cover designers and inside layout people and printers. So I hired her. And she helped me through the process, you filled in all sorts of backgrounds so that she then sort of match made you with people. And I had some really- so that was great. I knew I was working with experienced people. And I'm pretty good at briefing. I knew, and this is important, I knew what I didn't want. Okay, I'd looked at a lot of books, a lot of self published books. And I knew that I wanted my book to feel as though it would be at home in a bookshop, if it ever gets there. Like a physical bookshop, because that's still a goal. And so they gave me so much great material to work with and ideas, and I combined those with what I loved—with books that I have on my shelf. And we just kept iterating. It took, you know, a few times to go through, but it was so worth it. And I knew that I was in good hands. So I could trust that it was all going to come together because I was working with experienced people.
Candice
Yeah it's really I mean, it is. It's gorgeous. It feels good in my hand, it feels you know, substantial. The layout is great. They're just like- all the nitpicky things, that I often look at a book and say, "Oh, if only they had gotten that, right."
Angela
When it arrived, because I got proof copies I used a local printer as well, so like I have 500 copies, because I sell them from my website. I mean, you can get it on all the the different online stores, but I really wanted to support a local printer. I really wanted to have them in my hands. And he was fantastic. He brought me, you know, sample papers. I didn't like the first paper. It didn't feel right. I didn't want bright white. I wanted something that, again, felt like it was in a bookshop. And the first ones didn't work because the models went through the paper and he went and sourced. He was just lovely, really great guy. So I was a part of it but I was surrounded by really good people, great at their trade. So yes, I had to invest to get that it was a significant investment. But my goodness, the feeling when I hold it in my hands, I get little goosebumps on my arms. Like, "Oh my God, this is my book!" And it does, it feels really cool. Because it has got that love infused in it. Every person who had a role the layout person, the gorgeous woman who did the, you know, the cover. Everyone is so good at their craft and loved their craft. It just, it feels like a wee love fest in there. Love and talent, love and skill went together in it. So it was great.
Candice
Yeah, they did a wonderful job. And and you're right, it is an investment. It costs money. Those are professionals you're working with and they they expect to be paid as professionals, but it presents- the book presents you, it represents you in an incredibly professional way. Because a lot of times people can't get past a bad cover to discover great content. Right? So the fact that you have a beautiful cover will just pull more people in. So as the author expert, what do you want "Your Next Chapter", the book, to do for you and your business or your future? What do you want from it?
Angela
I guess there's- I wrote the book with thinking about that: the reasons for it. I mean, number one, it was very much a personal odyssey. IIt was really important that instead of just going, "oh, I'm going to. I'd like to," that I actually did. So you know, tick box number one. Number two, I want it to be a catalyst for a person who reads it because we transform in private when we're reading a book. So I want a woman to have that experience that I've had when I've been reading a book and I've just stopped and gone, "Whoa!" And suddenly this new possibility—that you hadn't thought of until you hit that page—becomes possible for you. And I know in my heart that's happening when people are reading this book. And that just excites me to no end. Then I got to number three, the third reason, which was what do I want this book to do for my business? Well, for me, it's like it's a discovery, the discovery part. So it almost- it doesn't—it's not the word legitimizes me because I'm already bloody legitimate, I'm worthy. But suddenly, it has my thoughts in a way that is far more easily accessible to somebody. And so to me, it is a pathway to coming into my world and the type of things that you can then hire me for, you know, get involved with with me, and dive deeper. And so I'm utilizing it as like a signpost. But to do that, I need to market it. Like, you know, I'm going into a whole new phase now. Yes, I've written it. Yes, I've got the thrill of all the boxes there in the back room. Yes, I've got the delight of sending books out every day and we've got a beautiful bookmark designed and all that sort of stuff. But the "hard work", inverted commas starts now. By "hard," I don't mean like backbreaking, but I mean consistence. The book does not market itself. I'm hoping for good word of mouth, but hope is not a marketing strategy. So I need to actually put in place distinctive strategies that help to get the book into more hands and therefore expand my reach and my impact in the world. So that's what it is. That's the purpose of it. In my business, it is a doorway and a pathway. As long as I make sure that door is open. If I don't market it, the door still only stays a little bit ajar. I want it wide open. So that's my focus next.
Candice
That is so huge because I think we can get so caught up in the writing process, which takes so much of us we pour ourselves into the book, and we think we're done. And then there's the design process with ourselves. And well, there's still more work to be done on the other end of that, right? You can't just put it on Amazon, or even in your local bookstore and hope that people are going to find it.
Angela
No, no, because a few will.
Candice
A few will! But not enough.
Angela
But that's not enough. Not enough. No.
Candice
Yeah and when you put this much time, effort, energy, and even money into writing and producing your book, you want to get a return on it. And you also want readers to get the benefit from it. Yeah, absolutely.
Angela
Absolutely. And I know that that is the next stage. And I'm fine with that. I enjoy that. But I had to ground myself and remind myself because one of my- there's a concept of being in the in the balcony or the basement of your strengths. So I'm an action-taker. I make things happen. It's just the way I've always been wired. I do things quickly, I talk quickly, I think quickly, I act quickly. And often that's really good. But often that's really bad. Like, I'll be, "Oh, next, next, next," sort of thing and a girlfriend I was talking to, who has written five books herself, and I was saying, "and I'm gonna do this and this," and she was going, this we're talking about next year. "But what about your book?" "Yeah." "Don't you have like boxes of that book in your backroom?" "Yes. Why?" "Why isn't that your key focus for January? Not, all that other shit you're talking about." I went . . . "Okay," and it's just so easy to get distracted. And so I might be, you know, sounding all sage on this podcast. Like, yes, well, my next phase is marketing. But I almost devil jumped, you know, bunny hopped over the top, because I can see the next thing that's coming up. And I need to give this wee baby book, you know, I need to help her crawl, and then walk and then run, you know, and absolutely dance through the world. That's the that's the next chapter.
Candice
Yeah give this book its chance to get out there into the world there are people who need it and they need to find out about it from you. So speaking about finding out about it from you, where can listeners find Angela?
Angela
Best place at the moment because I'm in a little bit of flux with how I'm expressing myself online. But my personal site will always be there, which is www.angelaraspass.com There is a website that's associated with the book that's sort of moving and changing at the moment. And there is the self worth Institute, which at the moment is just as a holding page, but the number one place to connect with me is through my website. Obviously, I'm on socials, a couple of them. You'll find me under Angela Raspass. It's a weird surname, no one else has, well very few of us have it so there's not a lot of me out there. So I'm on Facebook, I dance a little on Instagram, I quite like it might get more into it. And I do have a profile on LinkedIn. So and those are all accessible through the website as well. But that's where you can buy the book. It's big, bold letters sitting on the navigation. That's where you can access the book bonuses. That's where you can find out about how I could help you create your next chapter, which is my exciting work in the world.
Candice
So fantastic, Angela, thank you so much for getting up early. You guys it is so early in Australia for her. *both laugh* Thank you for getting up. Thank you for joining me. Thank you for just working with me. I've had such fun working with you and fun talking to you today. And hopefully we won't wait long before we talk again.
Angela
Absolutely. Thank you. I know that without a shadow of a doubt this book may have found its way into the world without your shepherding, but it wouldn't have come this year. And it wouldn't be the shape and form that it's in. It wouldn't be the best expression of me without you guiding me and stretching me and challenging me. It was a delight. And I absolutely recommend anyone who is sitting there in that deliberation zone, having an author coach changes everything. That was where the process began. So I really appreciate you. Thank you.
Candice
Thank you so much. I'm going to end on that wonderful note. Thanks, everyone.